tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post5758611221435600030..comments2024-03-22T21:58:18.933+00:00Comments on ShukerNature: THE MENAGERIE OF MARVELS IS HERE!! – MY TRILOGY OF BOOKS ON EXTRAORDINARY ANIMALS IS NOW COMPLETEAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15628598508836601012noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-35838297847232325792014-12-12T22:10:57.061+00:002014-12-12T22:10:57.061+00:00My final comments on this subject are: conclusive ...My final comments on this subject are: conclusive anatomical evidence for the ground sloths' evident terrestrial existence can be found in the link cited by me in my previous reply; if giant trees capable of supporting giant ground sloths in an arboreal existence (and such trees would need to be absolutely stupendous in size) had ever existed in the ground sloths' terrain, where are their fossils? (fossils of giant trees have been found elsewhere from the Pleistocene, e.g. http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2013QSRv...65....1P - so why not there?); and it is a cyclical argument, a logical fallacy, to say (as you seem to be doing) that if giant ground sloths lived in trees the trees must have been huge and the evidence for huge trees existing is the existence of giant ground sloths. As I think that we must agree to disagree on this subject, further comments regarding it are closed.Dr Karl Shukerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06222845702628862829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-36565526333006404352014-12-07T16:56:34.702+00:002014-12-07T16:56:34.702+00:00Their entire anatomy is one based upon a terrestri...Their entire anatomy is one based upon a terrestrial existence and is fundamentally different from that of tree sloths, which are highly specialised forms. I'm not sure where your idea that ground sloths could be arboreal has come from, but with the greatest respect it might be worth while researching comparative morphologies of tree and ground sloths. See, for example http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/tetrapod-zoology/2012/08/30/the-anatomy-of-sloths/Dr Karl Shukerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06222845702628862829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-19472757765453748612014-12-07T16:46:55.742+00:002014-12-07T16:46:55.742+00:00Megatherium was the size of an elephant! It weighe...Megatherium was the size of an elephant! It weighed up to 4 tons, and measured up to 20 ft long. I know of no evidence that there have ever been trees big enough to support a creature of that magnitude in them as an arboreal creature.Dr Karl Shukerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06222845702628862829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-21615667042547340232014-12-07T15:40:19.690+00:002014-12-07T15:40:19.690+00:00I do not think that anything about their known mor...I do not think that anything about their known morphology demonstrates that they actually lived on the ground or that they could move faster than modern sloths.Laurence Clark Crossenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15908708438427333473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-63077598711150472362014-12-07T15:32:00.610+00:002014-12-07T15:32:00.610+00:00What I am questioning is whether or not they were ...What I am questioning is whether or not they were ground dwelling. The giant size does not make them ground dwelling if the trees were bigger at that time. In my opinion, the trees probably were big enough for them to live in then. If the predators were also bigger, then they could not survive on the ground. Laurence Clark Crossenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15908708438427333473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-65391810284868022702014-12-07T14:18:41.152+00:002014-12-07T14:18:41.152+00:00And from Wikipedia's entry on Ground sloths: &...And from Wikipedia's entry on Ground sloths: "Although ground sloths were relatively easy to spot, this did not make hunting them easy. Big game hunters’ weapons were useless if ground sloths were further than thirty feet away. Additionally, the ground sloths’ already thick hide consisted of osteoderms, which made it exceptionally thick. It was difficult to take down a ground sloth with atlatls; killing a ground sloth required extensive knowledge of the species. Ground sloths' size and claws strong enough to tear apart tree branches made it incredibly dangerous for hunters to approach these animals." So IMHO it was probably as much if not more to do with climate change as with being hunted, whether by humans or by other predators, that brought about the giant ground sloths' demise.Dr Karl Shukerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06222845702628862829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-1202345960863972042014-12-07T14:11:21.193+00:002014-12-07T14:11:21.193+00:00http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megatherium - far too...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megatherium - far too big to live in even the biggest trees. As I say, tree sloths and ground sloths are very different from one another morphologically and behaviourally, even though they are related taxonomically.Dr Karl Shukerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06222845702628862829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-38255799130607901402014-12-07T14:07:43.359+00:002014-12-07T14:07:43.359+00:00Tree sloths are very different creatures from grou...Tree sloths are very different creatures from ground sloths, which were both quadrupedal and bipedal - a giant ground sloth squatting upright on its haunches and swinging its forearms, equipped with scythe-like claws, at predators would likely prove a daunting entity for anything to dare attack.Dr Karl Shukerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06222845702628862829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-13667140874043119592014-12-07T10:54:51.971+00:002014-12-07T10:54:51.971+00:00Sloths are so extremely slow, the size of their cl...Sloths are so extremely slow, the size of their claws would be of no use.Laurence Clark Crossenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15908708438427333473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-2926668835852272922014-12-06T17:18:53.687+00:002014-12-06T17:18:53.687+00:00No, apart from one expanded chapter from Revisited...No, apart from one expanded chapter from Revisited and one from the original Extraordinary Animals back in 1991, Menagerie is an entirely new book. Bearing in mind their huge size in the case of Megatherium, no tree could support it, but its massive foreclaws would make effective weapons if swung at putative attackers.Dr Karl Shukerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06222845702628862829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-26597163400646375712014-12-06T17:09:09.646+00:002014-12-06T17:09:09.646+00:00Hi Karl,
Is Menagerie a new version of Revisited?
...Hi Karl,<br />Is Menagerie a new version of Revisited?<br /><br />While I have your ear, do you think that giant ground sloths could actually have lived in larger trees than exist now? I think it unlikely they could have survived on the ground. Even elephants nowadays are taken down by prides of lions. How could sloths be fast enough? They even have to sneak down trees to bury their feces to avoid detection. I suspect the trees were bigger then.<br />Laurence Clark Crossenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15908708438427333473noreply@blogger.com