tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post6136068204916393856..comments2024-03-22T21:58:18.933+00:00Comments on ShukerNature: THE EMELA-NTOUKA – NEW CORROBORATIVE EVIDENCE FOR THE CONGO'S CRYPTIC 'KILLER OF ELEPHANTS'?Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15628598508836601012noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-26849655218852871032023-01-21T06:43:38.438+00:002023-01-21T06:43:38.438+00:00Excuse me, sir, what do you think of the name &quo...Excuse me, sir, what do you think of the name "Killer of elephants"? In the "Encyclopedia of cryptology", it is considered to be the Bomitaba and Lingala of Emela-ntouka, but I am not sure where it comes from? Is this correct?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-56311629563066695652021-04-21T18:09:37.158+01:002021-04-21T18:09:37.158+01:00The size of the emela-ntouka from what I've re...The size of the emela-ntouka from what I've read varies quite a bit, from as large as a hippo to larger than an elephant. It's fascinating to think that a land animal out there in the world today could exceed the elephant in size.Crunchyhippohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15546545204817480627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-86794563847085157082021-02-16T04:50:51.842+00:002021-02-16T04:50:51.842+00:00This is a true enigma for sure,it's composite ...This is a true enigma for sure,it's composite features leave me to wonder if it is or rather was something all together new. I'm sure this beast is now extinct like so many other cryptids seem to be. It is sad that we will likely never know what it was unless fossil remains are someday found.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10971219503628389025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-80251656228481085062021-01-29T02:39:26.176+00:002021-01-29T02:39:26.176+00:00My inner dinosaur-loving child would love to see t...My inner dinosaur-loving child would love to see the frilly ears of emela-ntouka representations turn out to be diminished Ceratopsian bony frill or even soft frills as some lizards have, but I think I see a way for a mammal to have such a tail as depicted. While large mammals usually have small tails, rats and some other small mammals have quite substantial tails for their size. Emela-ntouka's tail is heftier still, but now I remember there are, of course, known large mammals with even bigger tails: they're fully aquatic. ;) This reminds be of a page I once read which made a distinction between furred and furless mammals, the latter including cetaceans and some land creatures. I have no idea if this is a scientific division, but if it is true, a furless mammal with a large tail makes sense.<br /><br />Separately, I wonder if the emela-ntouka is the Behemoth of the Bible book of Job? (Website link relevant.) Jehovah's Witnesses suggest it's the hippopotomus. This seems mostly very reasonable to me, but one detail sticks out like a sore thumb: "It stiffens its tail like a cedar" in the 2013 revision of the New World Translation, "It bends down its tail like a cedar" in the original edition, and "He moveth his tail like a cedar" in the King James. In an account which focuses on the immense power of the animal, why mention the tail if it's a hippopotamus, let alone a cedar which is used throughout the Bible as a symbol of great strength. The emela-ntouka's tail, on the other hand, is so thick I can well imagine it swaying like a great tree and being almost as deastating if it comes crashing down! The mention of the tail is also closely associated with the description of the strength of its thighs, which seems appropriate for the thick base of the emela-ntouka's tail. However, the emela-ntouka's great horn is conspicuously absent from the description of Behemoth.<br /><br />Separately again, could the emela-ntouka's horn be a tooth as is the narwhal's? I'm thinking of the 'ivory' appellation. Perhaps it's a little too far from the mouth; I don't know.Ethan Gardenerhttps://wol.jw.org/en/wol/pc/r1/lp-e/1204407/463/0noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-39929330325095346172017-07-01T03:04:34.994+01:002017-07-01T03:04:34.994+01:00A very strange animal if it does or did exist. I h...A very strange animal if it does or did exist. I have noted the photographs of the supposed track of a Mokele Mbembe and they appear to be three toed. If Mok is a sauropod then it would likely show more toes. The photo reminded me more of a rhino track. Of course, there was nothing in the photo laid down to give a reference of size. It would be useful to bring real trackers on these expeditions so that a proper analysis could be done on tracks including size, and gate pattern, depth and so on. They could consult with native trackers on species I.D. to avoid mistakes if unfamiliar with the local fauna. I suggest a westerner with tracking skill because of the mystical qualities attributed to these unusual beasts by the natives often causing them to not go into the territories inhabited by these beasts. I have gathered from reading the accounts of natives that encounters are usually accidental and avoided if possible. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08325996942403156304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-141085287560669482016-04-15T16:40:16.108+01:002016-04-15T16:40:16.108+01:00I have always thought of emela-ntouka as a composi...I have always thought of emela-ntouka as a composite of two fearsome critters : a monitor lizard and an aquatic rhino. Just like the griffon is a composite of a lion and an eagle, two critters whiches symbolizes Power.Boshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17582184345673934121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-87893757357549942242015-09-23T20:54:45.518+01:002015-09-23T20:54:45.518+01:00Sounds fascinating. Can you post a photo of the tu...Sounds fascinating. Can you post a photo of the tusk?Bill Gibbonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04772375641936111396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-1795376027989281352015-08-29T22:55:01.580+01:002015-08-29T22:55:01.580+01:00Do you have any photos of this?Do you have any photos of this?Dr Karl Shukerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06222845702628862829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-85799383574033883102015-08-29T02:31:19.511+01:002015-08-29T02:31:19.511+01:00MY FAMILY HAS A TORSK OF THIS ANIMAL .. IS OUR ROY...MY FAMILY HAS A TORSK OF THIS ANIMAL .. IS OUR ROYAL HERITAGE .. AGE HUNDREDS OF YEARS Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16279003131673083992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-48296204386792066592014-09-12T06:16:30.260+01:002014-09-12T06:16:30.260+01:00However, its long heavy tail differs dramatically ...However, its long heavy tail differs dramatically from the short, ... <a href="http://hybridswimshorts.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">hybridswimshorts.blogspot.com</a><br />Caesarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04146422483204202785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-4750095457807123382014-08-16T07:42:47.016+01:002014-08-16T07:42:47.016+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02315443985929849900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-63538969257447992772014-07-10T09:51:01.924+01:002014-07-10T09:51:01.924+01:00The tellings of the Emela-Ntouka killing elephants...The tellings of the Emela-Ntouka killing elephants with his horn reminds me of the Karkadan (Persian for rhinoceros). A mythical single horned beast said to live on the grassy plains of Persia and India. The Karkadan was highly territorial and would kill elephants from underneath with it's horn.San Sebashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06996472204676571556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-77887410387971028042014-07-08T15:58:51.952+01:002014-07-08T15:58:51.952+01:0066 million years is a very long time for evolution...66 million years is a very long time for evolution to utilise, and in w world where reptiles had ceded their domination to reptiles, who knows along which routes continuing evolution may have taken a post-KT ceratopsian? So I feel there is only a limited degree of information that can be drawn from fossil ceratopsians when attempting to speculate on the possible appearance of a 21st Century survivor and it is risky to be too adamant on what such a creature could or could not look like. Bearing in mind that mammals 66 million years ago were small, generalised creatures, it would be difficult indeed to have predicted from such animals how diverse mammals would be 66 million years later.Dr Karl Shukerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06222845702628862829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-62882544792074983032014-07-08T04:19:21.268+01:002014-07-08T04:19:21.268+01:00Actually, Ceratopsians were very different from th...Actually, Ceratopsians were very different from the descriptions of Emela-ntouka. They were fully terrestrial rather than semi-aquatic, and had very different skin. A recently-found Triceratops mummy shows that the belly had large, square scales, while the back was covered in round pebbly scales interspersed with large scutes. These scutes have been found in other ceratopsian skin impressions, so it would seem that this was the norm for them.<br /><br />Furthermore, the primitive ceratopsian Psittacosaurus is known to have had long, bristley quills on the back of its tail. Based on structures found on the Triceratops mummy I mentioned eariler, scientists think it may have had them too. The fact that these structures are found both in primitive and advanced ceratopsians suggests that they all head them to some extent, another inconsistency with the Emela-ntouka. While it's true that a modern Ceratopsian would have 66 million years of evolution behind it, these features were found in all ceratopsians for nearly 100 million years and never went away. It would seem odd for them to disappear in a modern member of the group.<br /><br />Also, ceratopsian frills were almost useless for defence because in almost all species they had large holes in them to reduce weight (Triceratops is the exception, but if Torosaurus turns out to be its adult form then it has a holy frill too). They were very fragile structures and seem to have been used more for communication and display than for defense.<br /><br />If there is anything behind Emela-ntouka, it would have to be a mammal of some sort, but my personal feeling is that it doesn't exist, and is instead folkloric.<br /><br />Sincerely,<br />Tyler StoneTyler Stonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03510615325159242706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-16507998727121535552014-07-06T17:23:23.360+01:002014-07-06T17:23:23.360+01:00@Peter Byrdie - Thibault's drawing (one of fou...@Peter Byrdie - Thibault's drawing (one of four that he produced together depicting Central African Republic mythological/cryptozoological entities - my next ShukerNature blog post will reveal the other three) was prepared during the early 1990s or late 1980s in the Central African Republic (CAR) but never made public until just a couple of years ago (and even then, only in the CAR), whereas the two carvings were created independently of one another by villagers in two completely separate villages in Cameroon, and again received no outside publicity until seen by Michel Ballot in 2005, so it seems highly unlikely that Thibault saw these sculptures - indeed, judging from the above dates,, he had probably already produced his drawing before the sculptures had even been created. And he had lived in the CAR for many years, dying there too, in its capital, Bangui, so again it seems very unlikely that he had ever found his way into those two particular remote villages in Cameroon. The simplest and certainly the most plausible explanation for the similarity between drawing and sculptures is that they were all basing their artworks on traditional descriptions of the emela-ntouka. I don't think that it's a composite, because very similar descriptions are also given by natives outside the CAR and Cameroon, re the chipekwe and irizima. Dr Karl Shukerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06222845702628862829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-36826811390682046802014-07-06T17:13:44.958+01:002014-07-06T17:13:44.958+01:00The Westerner, Frenchman artist Jean Claude Thibau...The Westerner, Frenchman artist Jean Claude Thibault, didn't see it personally - he was merely producing a series of four drawings depicting various Central African Republic mythological/cryptozoological entities - my next ShukerNature blog article will reveal the other three of his drawings. So yes, both his drawings and the Cameroon carvings are indeed representations of the traditional description of the emela-ntouka.Dr Karl Shukerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06222845702628862829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-37681489630523261722014-07-06T15:44:53.012+01:002014-07-06T15:44:53.012+01:00Thank you for your insight. I still think the ears...Thank you for your insight. I still think the ears being frills is a possibility though, simply cause I think a reptilian identity is more plausible than a mammalian one. But you are the expert.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11228403379530622209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-91546445312017147332014-07-06T13:56:41.142+01:002014-07-06T13:56:41.142+01:00Could the carvings and drawings not have been base...Could the carvings and drawings not have been based on a lost/as-yet-unknown earlier depiction? I think we would have heard more about this creature had a Westerner really seen it so recently. Alternatively, they could simply both be representations of the "traditional" description of this creature, with the elephant-stabbing also pointing in this direction...Moohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06442248305329813018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-69421484147173285212014-07-06T01:26:02.464+01:002014-07-06T01:26:02.464+01:00When I first read about the Rothschild tusk many y...When I first read about the Rothschild tusk many years ago I wondered exactly the same thing, but after reading the Rothschild-Neuville paper on the tusk it was clear that it really was a tusk and not a horn.Dr Karl Shukerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06222845702628862829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-20845142236030202882014-07-06T01:23:30.163+01:002014-07-06T01:23:30.163+01:00Could the Rothchilds tusk be from the hippo killer...Could the Rothchilds tusk be from the hippo killer animal?Marleanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17961993497991831137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-52714130529133449792014-07-06T00:57:18.373+01:002014-07-06T00:57:18.373+01:00In fact, the details of the carvings are incredibl...In fact, the details of the carvings are incredibly well replicated by Thibault's illustration, to so high a degree I find it far more likely that he had encountered one of those or similar carvings and, history has omitted such contact, than that he had details of the creature conveyed to him with such precision that he was able to reproduce so perfect a duplicate. <br /><br />The muscular tail depicted in the emela-ntouka carvings is every bit as distinctly reptilian to me as the ears are mammalian. My feeling has always been they show a mythical composite creature, comprising the tail of something like a monitor lizard, the body of perhaps a hippo, the head of a rhino, and the ears of an elephant.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05990564432778690216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-40169571877078465562014-07-05T21:44:43.994+01:002014-07-05T21:44:43.994+01:00Hi Zero, Thanks for your kind words. I know that L...Hi Zero, Thanks for your kind words. I know that Lariosaurus is a genus of fossil nothosaur, and the Tarantasio dragon supposedly lived in a Gerundo Lake southeast of Milan but was killed by a knight from the Visconti family.Dr Karl Shukerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06222845702628862829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-50575572388507605202014-07-05T21:40:22.918+01:002014-07-05T21:40:22.918+01:00The drawing's artist did contort the elephant ...The drawing's artist did contort the elephant being stabbed, but the frilled ears of the emela-ntouka in that drawing are portrayed in exactly the same manner in both carvings too, which were created independently of the drawing, so I think that they are depicted accurately and hence are indeed ears, and thus mammalian.Dr Karl Shukerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06222845702628862829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-76297014652480498282014-07-05T17:51:23.356+01:002014-07-05T17:51:23.356+01:00Perhaps the emela- ntouka really is a ceratopsian ...Perhaps the emela- ntouka really is a ceratopsian dinosaur, and the ears depicted on the statue are a interpretation of the creature's frill. Same goes for the drawing, as we know that the artist has a habit of contorting his creatures.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11228403379530622209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3739684561063978507.post-36589983616573243522014-07-05T09:14:57.198+01:002014-07-05T09:14:57.198+01:00Dear Dr. Karl Shuker, sorry for my bad english. I&...Dear Dr. Karl Shuker, sorry for my bad english. I'm Zero from Italy and read your blog for a long time, compliment for your excellent work. I wanted to ask you a question: do you know some italian cryptid? For example the Lariosauro or the Tarantasio dragon? Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16993967896474851845noreply@blogger.com